On the latest edition of NBC’s Meet the Depressed, Oklahoma Senator Markwayne Mullin shut down host Kristen Welker’s pressure over the reduction of the federal workforce. Thus continues the media’s campaign to advocate for fired government workers in a way they’ve never done for any other workers.

Watch as Welker tries to make Mullin squirm on job cuts, only to get fed a mouthful of DOGE:

NBC’s @kwelkernbc pleads to @SenMullin: “Talk to the people in Oklahoma who’ve lost their jobs, who say they are hurting, they don’t know how they’re going to pay their mortgage, they don’t know they’re going to make ends meet. Talk to those people. What’s your message to them?… pic.twitter.com/la5mF0iz7j
— Brent Baker 🇺🇦 🇮🇱 (@BrentHBaker) February 23, 2025

MARKWAYNE MULLIN: What Oklahomans want is to make sure that we riddle –

KRISTEN WELKER: But –

MULLIN: …or we get rid of the waste and fraud inside the federal government. And that’s –

WELKER: But Senator –

MULLIN: …exactly what the president’s done. They’ve already identified billions, billions of dollars of waste and fraud for the taxpayers.

WELKER: But Senator, first of all, there hasn’t – they haven’t provided proof of fraud. But talk to the people in Oklahoma who’ve lost their jobs, who say they are hurting, they don’t know how they’re going to pay their mortgage. They don’t know how they’re going to make ends meet. Talk to those people. What’s your message to them? They say, “Enough of these cuts.”

MULLIN: Well, I – I’m not – I would tell you that the majority of the American people want to make sure that their taxpayers are being used correctly. I don’t want anybody to lose their job. That’s the last thing we want. But at the same time, anytime you’re trying to secure this country, which a national security risk we have right now is our national debt, we have to make changes, and we have to make it quickly. Unfortunately, when we have bureaucrats and politicians that have wastefully spent the American taxpayer dollars, and we don’t have to look any further than USAID to see the wasteful billions of dollars that were spent, cuts had to take place. And every business owner understands this. Every business owner understands that you have to get your house in order before you can advance. That’s exactly what DOGE is doing. Think about this. Every successful –

WELKER: Senator –

MULLIN: …business owner out there and every successful business has hired consultants to come in and take an unbiased look and make changes because sometimes when you’re so close to it, you can’t see what the real changes need to take place. Elon Musk is the United States’ consultant right now. He the – he is literally the – the – the best entrepreneur we’ve had in our lifetime, and he’s doing it for free, and he’s taking an unbiased look –

WELKER: Yeah.

MULLIN: …saying, “These programs make no sense. Let’s save the taxpayer dollars and get our house in order.”

Fired federal employees are drawing the kind of coverage that exceeds the wildest dreams of energy sector employees who encountered a similar fate in 2021, when President Joe Biden signed a series of executive orders severely curtailing domestic energy production. I don’t recall any elected Democrats called to deliver messages to laid off oil workers, or to the families who were crushed by subsequent inflation. 

There will be no “learn to code” admonitions in the media for fired government workers, only glowing victim coverage. 

The broad interview covered such topics as Ukraine, the firing of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and some hysterics over the idea, floated in jest, of President Trump seeking a third term. But the bulk of it was focused on the firings. 

Of note: when Welker tried to take the first pass at victim-shaming Mullin, he addressed the town halls narrative, which appears to be built upon astroturf. Chagrined, Welker took a second pass- which led to the exchange above.

The American people voted for massive change. The news media appear to be most resistant to that change, and you have to wonder why that is.

Click “expand” to view the full transcript of the aforementioned interview as aired on NBC’s Meet the Press on Sunday, February 23rd, 2025:

KRISTEN WELKER: And joining me now is Republican Senator Markwayne Mullin of Oklahoma. Senator Mullin, welcome back to Meet the Press.

MARKWAYNE MULLIN: Thanks for having me on, Kristen.

WELKER: Thank you so much for being here. Let’s start with the effort to end the war in Ukraine, that war now about to stretch into its fourth year, incredibly hard to believe. Senator Mullin, do you acknowledge that Vladimir Putin is responsible for starting the war in Ukraine?

MULLIN: You know, I think what President Trump was meaning – not think, I know what he was meaning – is we gave Zelenskyy multiple warnings that there needed to be a negotiations before the war even started. And President Trump is absolutely correct. If he was in office, this war would have never, ever taken place. What we’re trying to do and what President Trump is trying to do is end the killing. It’s been going on for three years. The Biden administration turned a blind eye to it, and President Trump is the president that can end the war. There, fact – fact and simple.

WELKER: Well, I guess, but I didn’t hear an answer to the question of, “Did Vladimir Putin start the war?” You yourself said when Russia invaded Ukraine three years ago, quote, “I strongly condemn the unjustified and unprovoked attack on Ukraine.” So just to be clear, Senator, do you still believe this was an unjustified and unprovoked attack on Ukraine by Russia?

MULLIN: You know, what – what we believe is this war should have never taken place. And what we’re trying to do here is put President Trump in a good position to negotiate the end of the war. It’s the same way that – that Reagan worked with Gorbachev by trying to end the Cold War. Trump is the president that’s going to be able to end the killings that should have never taken place and would have never taken place if he would have been in office instead of Joe Biden. The reason why is because President Trump leads peace through strength. What Biden led through is appeasement. And that doesn’t work on the world stage. And I do believe 100% that we don’t want to attack – back the president or this administration into a corner on saying things that might damage the ability for President Trump to negotiate the – an end to this war. And President Trump is a dealmaker. He will end this war.

WELKER: Well, and of course there’s no way to go back in history and know what may or may not have happened under a different president. But let me ask you this. I want to play some –

MULLIN: Well, I – I don’t – I don’t know if you can – no, I don’t know if you can say that –

WELKER: …of your Senate Republican – Senator –

MULLIN: …because if you look at the – well, if you look at the history of this, just look at the history –

WELKER: Yeah.

MULLIN: …Crimea was invaded underneath Obama. No, he did not invade any of Ukraine when Biden – when Trump was in office. He invaded –

WELKER: Yeah.

MULLIN: Ukraine when Biden went into office. So I think there is a history to say that there’s a pretty good –

WELKER: Yeah.

MULLIN: …99.9% chance it wouldn’t have happened if Trump would have been in office or if Biden would have simply used the same peace through strength –

WELKER: But –

MULLIN: …foreign policy that Trump had.

WELKER: But, Senator, I think the question is, “Can President Trump be critical and tough on Putin right now?” Let me play you some of what your Senate Republican colleagues had to say this week. Take a listen.

ROGER WICKER: Putin is a war criminal and should be in jail for the rest of his life if not executed.

JOHN KENNEDY: He’s a gangster with a Blackhawk. I don’t – he makes Jeffrey Dahmer look like Mother Theresa.

THOM TILLIS: This man is a cancer and the greatest threat to democracy in my lifetime.

WELKER: Senator, is it important for the President of the United States, who speaks for all of the country, to be honest and critical of Vladimir Putin?

MULLIN: I think the president’s been very critical of Putin. And I’m not sitting here defending Putin. Putin’s not a good guy. At the same time, that’s up to the Russian people. That’s not up to us to make that decision. What President Trump is trying to do is end the war. And he’s trying to end the war from a – from a peace – place of strength. You don’t end a way from a place of weakness, which is why Biden could never end the war. Trump is going to be able to end the war. He’s gonna – he said he was going to do it when he was on the campaign trail, and he’s kept his promises, and he’s going to continue to deliver on those promises.

WELKER: Let me zoom out and ask you big picture. Do you think the United States should stay in NATO, Senator?

MULLIN: You know, if it’s in our interest, I absolutely do. But right now, NATO has not always been playing in – in our best interest. And when it’s not in Americans’ best interest anymore, then we should relook at things. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing, expecting different results. We see NATO, and we see U.N. sometimes weaponizing against the United States, and we’re the biggest funder of it. And if it’s not in the taxpayers’ best interest, if it’s not in Americans’ foreign policy best interest, then we need to look at a – look at a different approach.

WELKER: The United States has historically determined that it is in the United States’ best security interest.

MULLIN: Historically.

WELKER: President Zelenskyy himself has said he believes that Russian troops are amassing potentially in Belarus, could be potentially eyeing the possibility of going into other NATO nations. Can European members and NATO count on the United States and President Trump to help defend them if they are attacked by Russia, Senator?

MULLIN: Well, I – I don’t – first of all, I don’t believe for a second that Russia is going to advance a war in any other country right now. It’d be extremely dangerous, and he will call President Trump’s hand. President Trump does not just simply say idle words. He delivers it. We saw what happened in Syria. Keep in mind, in Syria, he told Russia to stay out of it in 2017. They went ahead and helped Assad, and they delivered chemical weapons on their own people. What did President Trump do? Within 30 minutes, he – they kicked Russia out of the airspace and completely destroyed their airfield that they were operating underneath. Russia and Putin fears President Trump.

KRISTEN WELKER: Senator, let me ask you about the breaking news that happened late Friday night, when President Trump fired Joint Chiefs of Staff CQ Brown, who President himself – President Trump himself picked five years ago to lead the Air Force. I want to play you some of what Democratic Congressman James Clyburn had to say in reaction. Take a look.

LAURA COATES: Is that why you think the president has let him go? Because he’s Black?

CLYBURN: That’s what I think. When they say DEI, we know what it means. As I heard somebody say earlier today, they are substituting these acronyms for the N-word. So why would you apply the term “woke” to General Brown? What does that mean?

WELKER: Senator Mullin, what is your reaction to Congressman Clyburn? Do you think that CQ Brown was fired because he’s Black?

MULLIN: Unfortunately, Congressman Clyburn, he constantly pulls the race card out. This has nothing to do with this. We’re a civilian force, and the president gets to choose his closest advisors. And the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is his closest advisors. Obviously he said very positive things about General Brown, even when he was dismissing him. But the president has a right to pick people around him that he wants to – that he trusts. And at some point, he chose to go a different direction. This had zero, absolutely zero to do with race. Keep in mind, the reason why he was promoted the first time was because President Trump did that in his – in his last administration. So it’s dangerous every time the left wants to pull out the race card. It’s dangerous and reckless and ridiculous.

WELKER: All right. Let’s turn now to these steep government cuts that we’re seeing. They’re starting to be felt across the country. Here are some recent headlines in your home state of Oklahoma. Quote, “Federal layoffs felt across Indigenous communities in Oklahoma.” “Oklahoma University president says the National Institutes of Health funding cut would severely impact university research.” “Thousands of Oklahoma veterans and caregivers struggle amid cuts to VA.” This comes as there have been town halls all across the country, including in Oklahoma, protesting these cuts. What is your message to the people of Oklahoma who say they are being hurt by these cuts by President Trump and Elon Musk?

MULLIN: Well, let’s – let’s go back and talk about their protest. The chair of the DNC, Ken Martin, openly admitted on MSNBC just yesterday that they were manufacturing these protests. They were bussing in armies to manufacture these protests.

WELKER: But what about the headlines in your state –

MULLIN: Now let’s talk about the cuts. The American people –

WELKER: Hold on. Senator. What about the headlines in your state?

MULLIN: Well, I’ll get to that. I’ll get to that. Let’s – I will get to that. Let’s talk about the NIH. The funding has been abused all across universities. We have Ivy League, from Harvard to – to – to Yale, that’s using 68%, 69% of NIH funding for monies other than research, meaning overhead. You have the University of Oklahoma that 55% of the dollars that are going in to – for research are being used for overhead funding. That – those dollars should be around 15-25% tops to be used for overhead instead of NIH actual research and development. There has to be a reset. It has been abused. And what the president’s saying is that that number can be anywhere from 15-25%, but it should be a max. If you start looking at –

WELKER: But –

MULLIN: …donors that donate to the university, they immediately put in 15-25% tops on their donation can be used for that. So if you want to start talking about actual cuts, what Oklahomans want is to make sure that we riddle –

KRISTEN WELKER: But –

MULLIN: …or we get rid of the waste and fraud inside the federal government. And that’s –

WELKER: But Senator –

MULLIN: …exactly what the president’s done. They’ve already identified billions, billions of dollars of waste and fraud for the taxpayers.

WELKER: But Senator, first of all, there hasn’t – they haven’t provided proof of fraud. But talk to the people in Oklahoma who’ve lost their jobs, who say they are hurting, they don’t know how they’re going to pay their mortgage. They don’t know how they’re going to make ends meet. Talk to those people. What’s your message to them? They say, “Enough of these cuts.”

MULLIN: Well, I – I’m not – I would tell you that the majority of the American people want to make sure that their taxpayers are being used correctly. I don’t want anybody to lose their job. That’s the last thing we want. But at the same time, anytime you’re trying to secure this country, which a national security risk we have right now is our national debt, we have to make changes, and we have to make it quickly. Unfortunately, when we have bureaucrats and politicians that have wastefully spent the American taxpayer dollars, and we don’t have to look any further than USAID to see the wasteful billions of dollars that were spent, cuts had to take place. And every business owner understands this. Every business owner understands that you have to get your house in order before you can advance. That’s exactly what DOGE is doing. Think about this. Every successful –

WELKER: Senator –

MULLIN: …business owner out there and every successful business has hired consultants to come in and take an unbiased look and make changes because sometimes when you’re so close to it, you can’t see what the real changes need to take place. Elon Musk is the United States’ consultant right now. He the – he is literally the – the – the best entrepreneur we’ve had in our lifetime, and he’s doing it for free, and he’s taking an unbiased look –

WELKER: Yeah.

MULLIN: …saying, “These programs make no sense. Let’s save the taxpayer dollars and get our house in order.”

WELKER: Senator, very quickly before I let you go, the national debt is $36 trillion. DOGE is only dealing right now with the federal workers, which is only 8% of federal spending, a small fraction of the federal budget. So how do DOGE’s layoffs actually deal with the debt problem?

MULLIN: Take care of your pennies, and the dollars will take care of themselves. Every business owner knows that. Within only four short weeks, we’ve already identified over $55 billion of waste and fraud. We’re only four weeks into a four-year administration. That is taking care of the pennies and going to get to the dollars. We will get our house back in order.

WELKER: All right, Senator, very quickly because I am almost out of time. President Trump again this week joked about running for a third term. Would you support changing the Constitution to allow Donald Trump to seek a third term in office?

MULLIN: First of all, he joked. And so I think we need to take that as a joke, not being literal.

WELKER: Some of his allies say they are deadly serious, Senator. Would you support that?

MULLIN: No. I’m not – I’m not changing the Constitution, first of all, unless – unless the American people chose to do that. I will say, just as what you said in the beginning: It was a joke, and people need to take it as a joke. The president is a very interesting guy that you can find extreme humor in when you sit down to visit with him. At the same time, he can be deadly serious. That’s why I call him my friend.

WELKER: Senator Mullin, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. Hope you’ll come back again soon. Thank you.